NXIVM and Love Has Won/ How to Not Join a Cult

It's a cult bonanza over here! We nerd-out on Nixxyum? Is that how you say it? And Love Has Won, two bonkers examples of high control groups. Since cults overlap with other control situations, the tips at the end could help you extricate yourself or someone else from any other high-control setting. 

Transcript

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Hey everyone, welcome to True Crime Defense, the podcast that nerds out on true crime cases, gives you tips on how to stay safe and never blames the target of any crime. Hope you enjoy the show. Today we're going to be talking about cults. Radhika, are you comfortable with me talking into your ear holes? Absolutely. Cool. So, starting off cults, I took an extra week to do research and I feel like it broke my brain. I, feel like one of those cartoon characters that, like, got hit in the head with an anvil and, the birds are chirping around. Yeah, I'm, this one really took it out of me. But I do love learning about cults because I think they cover almost all crimes and they're a glaring example of manipulation that you might see in any controlling relationship or group. And with that said, yeah, that's how I'm feeling. I'm overdone. I'm toasted. I'm, I'm, yeah, burnt. I will say out of everything that we've researched so far, this one was probably the most exhausting. Yes, for sure. As a reminder, we use these cases to discuss and educate about predatory, manipulative, and abusive behavior, and in no way do we blame the target for the choices that they make. it's pretty unlikely that you'll be recruited into a destructive cult. But they're so useful to think about because some of the same tactics they use are similar to scammers, predators of all kinds, and there's overlap with abusive relationships, bad jobs, all kinds of things. So I researched the cult Love Has Won and Radhika researched Nixxiom. We're going to talk about recruitment, retention, and exit strategies at the end. Are you cool if I start with Love Has Won? Please go for it. Okay. Ooh, doctor. This is a real stinky onion, I had to feel. I'm going to try to make it quick because like we're kind of covering two, but this is a bonkers journey. Did you look at any of the stuff on Love Has Won? No, I have not. Oh, so you're fresh. I wanted to cover this particular cult because there's less violence and I enjoy learning about cognitive dissonance and there is a lot of it here. Get ready to do some Gumby yoga because all their beliefs are quite a stretch. You have to believe some really outrageous things to stay a part of this group, and the fact that most of their followers are online is a newer phenomenon that I find puzzling. Most of the media starts with Amy Carlson as the ringleader of Love Has Won, but I think there are other forces brewing behind the scenes. So from, so warnings for this one, alcoholism, severe time out for a tiny child, cat abuse, neglect of a sick person, and anti Semitism, and lots of mental illness., I put this together from info from the Dr. Phil show, Wikipedia, a Rolling Stone article. There's an episode of Dateline. I couldn't find the actual episode, but a date with Dateline hilariously covered it. So I listened to them. Also I watched some of the Bizarro videos that the actual cult puts out on YouTube. Radhika, I listened to so many podcasts that my brain shorted out. Like I can't remember what information I got from where, but... It's from reputable sources. I promise. I believe you. I'm going to start with Amarith White Eagle who convinced Amy that she was a god and she dropped each of her three children off to their respective fathers and left, to join the Galactic Federation of Light in 2007. The only research I did on him was to look at his Twitter account, I think it's from like 2018, which has the tagline, all in caps, and I'm going to spell it out for you. S E N S E. So, since we are present as now God, us all, period. I love the feeling of awakening, don't you? And then a happy face emoji. So it just solidified my, reasoning for not joining Twitter and staying off of there. yeah, I think that says it all. You've got word salad and nonsense. Yeah, that's the best. Emirates White Eagle left Amy in 2014, and around this time, Miguel Lamboy joined the group, and at some point took over its finances, claiming tax exempt status as a charitable group. Amy claims to be 19 billion years old, and that she has been reincarnated 534 times, including as Jesus, Joan of Arc, Marilyn Monroe and Cleopatra, along with many others, but we just don't have time. I do love it when people only come back as, were reincarnated, like they only were famous people, like it's never Judy from HR, right? Here's a very culty number, 144, 000. If you hear that number, it means you're 100 percent in a cult. She, like Manson, David Koresh, Chad and Laurie Daybell, the Yellow Deli cult, and every other Christian cult I know of, claims,, she will lead that number of followers into the future. The first videos with Amrit White Eagle I saw were pretty tame. She seems sweet, just an annoying Namaste lady claiming to be Mother God. She looks like someone I'd just be irritated with in yoga class. and then over time, things go really off the rails. She has several father gods over the years. I mean, that's not the off the rails part, but anyway. She claims that Trump was her father in a past life and that she talks to the spirit of Robin Williams. So this I found really interesting, the mix between New Age woo woo Goop style alternative Medicine, and then Q Anon Conspiracy and Aliens. This sounds like a disastrous Thanksgiving dinner, but it's the base of their OC cult members. I've heard it called, cons Spiritualism, which was a new term for me. I, I thought it kind of has this really broad base of people you would think would be really conflicting. Live stream has so much stuff. So this is the timeout I'm going to talk about, and it's on the Dr. Phil show. A two year old is locked in the closet in the dark for two minutes, and then is expected to calm down. The process is repeated many times, and the child is screaming hysterically. And as a parent, I feel I have the authority to speak on this and say that I would like to curse. But I'll say that she's effing up. if you're gonna Verbalize, research it carefully and do it for sleep training. This is something altogether totally different. It's punishment. Mm-hmm. I find it fascinating that these people brought their child to her. She's already given up her parental duties to her own children, and somehow she's telling them, and then the other really spooky and terrifying part is that in the room are multiple other adults, maybe five to ten adults, that are just sitting there watching, like they're not Watch this happen. Yeah, they're not helping or doing anything in any way. Yikes. She's not to be questioned, right, because she's God. I watched quite a few from the early days through recently. They're all gross in their own way. They did not deny being abusive, controlling members sleep and work. And I can tell you just from watching their own videos that they're all of those things and additionally anti Semitic. Hope, formerly known as Ashley, and Aurora, formerly known as Lauren, are her acolytes, and these two are a nightmare. They believe she's God. She claims to have done over 100, 000 quote unquote spiritual surgeries. She says she's paralyzed and in great pain, which is why she drinks to extreme. Ashley, a former member, says they do use sleep deprivation. Amy denies it on the Dr. Phil show, and then we see footage of a member sleeping for one hour and then being berated for it. According to Ashley, Amy charged in some cases 100, 000 to 400, 000 per, like, spiritual online surgery. Amy says that she has stage 5 cancer and can't feel herself and Radhika, did you know that there is no medically, there's no stage 5? Just learn about it, I guess. Yeah, she is a god, so I guess god has a different gradation system, apparently., a woman named Arianne says her husband went to Colorado to join Hello Has One and says he was drugged and left on the other side of the mountain without food, water, or shelter. He was found wandering in the wilderness, naked and staring at the sun for hours because they said he could get the darkness out by doing this. Oh my gosh. His family says they took thousands of dollars from him and sent him to fend for himself. And then just a warning for animal abuse. I don't want to get too much into it, but she's just seen being really rough with her cat physically and verbally. I don't own a cat, but I feel like I have the authority to say she's abusing it. Mm hmm. the group Hawks Colloidal Silver Drinks, which they were warned about by the FDA, because they claimed it cures COVID, amongst other things. They charge 88 for etheric surgeries. They have enough money to house, feed, and transport their 12 to 20 followers, and they've been all over the U. S., kind of like, in flight from people who hate them. over the years, you can see Amy getting thinner and drunker and her skin turns blue in the videos. She was found dead in the home of Miguel Lamboy in April or May of 2021. I couldn't find the exact date and they're not exactly sure because her remains were mummified. So they don't know exactly when she died. Lamboy reported to the police that Love Has Won group had her mummified body there and were preventing him from taking his two year old son from the property. He apparently withdrew 200, 000 from the account associated with Amy Love Has Won prior to going to the police. The autopsy report says she weighed 75 pounds and died from anorexia, alcohol abuse, and chronic colloidal silver ingestion. there's a video of her asking to go to the hospital or to see a medical provider and her followers say 3D doctors wouldn't know how to treat her because she's in 5D. I personally think, yeah, it's... I think, just based on that video, they should be charged for neglect and for, actually impeding her from getting help, but nobody's been charged, or at least the charges have been dropped. I looked at the new website, and Hope and or Aurora are being gross and long winded there. And from what I could tell, the YouTube videos have each had less than 300 views. So hopefully they will stop this nonsense and just get jobs at Whole Foods and leave everyone alone. You guys, there's so much more, but I just had to stop there. And so now I want to hear from you, Radhika. All right. By the group that I researched, honestly, I only got into it so much because I was obsessed with Smallville growing up. Oh, got it. And one of the actresses, Allison Mack, was, charged and she's now serving three years in prison for being a part of this group. So. We'll start with the umbrella term. You visually see it is the letters NXIVM and this group, the founder was Keith Raniere, who's a discussing person and the group was actually originally labeled as a self help group. That then turned into a sex cult. This group was actually, it was founded by Keith Raniere and also this other lady named Nancy Salzman, who of course she is a nurse who pivoted to the self help world. And she just used all sorts of, I think she called it. Like some sort of neuro help technique, and. I'm always so annoyed whenever I find out that it was a nurse who had something to do with it. Of course, the most bonkers version of one. Yeah, but I think she uses it's called neuro linguistic programming, is that what it was? Well, and that's a classic example of what cults use to program people. Right, and they don't like the term brainwashing, but that is what everybody else understands it as. So these two got together, created this, they were explosive together, and they created this group. So their whole scheme, which if we go back to Keith Raniere's, past, he created all sorts of marketing... Groups, and in that he really enjoyed the pyramid scheme, which you're kind of the boss, and then everybody does your work, and it's all about recruitment and getting more and more and more people in there. So he found it just so successful that he decided to make his own group, labeling it as a self help group. The courses that they were teaching in the beginning. It was all about how to make yourself more confident. how to deal with conflict And looking at some of the testimonies that some of the group members talked about, they did say that the first couple. Courses that they took, they really felt a lot better. And I do think that's how they originally get you. They have to have some sort of positive, good benefiting things that gets other people excited about joining and staying to see what more can this group provide me with. He started the NXIVM group, which again, apparently I found out that it costs about 7, 500 for a 12 hour intensive course. This course lasts about three days, and it's kind of the first two days are very bizarre. It makes you want to second guess and, Question your gut. But one of the things they teach you in the class is what your gut is telling you and what your instinct is saying is wrong. And that's why you're in this class to get the help because you want to better yourself. So whatever you're thinking about life, wanting to leave that is wrong. The urge to bolt. Suppress it. And I guess when you go to a course and that's all they're teaching you and you think this is the get yourself better class, you're gonna start suppressing that. And apparently that third day is when the brainwashing start to take into full effect. Which is so frightening that you would voluntarily go to a course that tells you to suppress your own instinct. So that's where it started, with NXIVM. Now the group where we saw it all in the news about like the branding, that is called DOS. D O S. That group, it, it has like a Latin word, Dominus Obsequius Sororium, which pretty much means Master Overslaved Women. and this group was a very like secretive group that he then recruited. So he was the master, and then he recruited his, close secretive women. And then they recruited their own people. So it was like recruit six, each person keeps recruiting six. Now, in order to be a part of this group, he really only recruited people that were in the next team group so long term that they had built their own communities. Their friends pretty much were really in it. And then this, DOS group was where. I mean, if you, see one of the, documentaries on HBO, it's called The Vow. And The Vow, I'll read it to you, is what they say right before these women get branded. It is a little triggering, so I'm just gonna give you a warning, but the branding of Vow is... Please brand me it would be an honor and honor. I want to wear for the rest of my life. And now this, Keith wanted them to say before they were held down for the branding and to get it on video to show that they were not transparent. Forced into saying this and this they were saying this out of their own will. But one other thing he did was collect collateral, which before they joined the group, the women would either videotape them doing any sort of sexual things or confessions that they Someone close to them had done something to them and then Keith held this as collateral at the time the women did not know that these were his initials that they were getting branded near their pelvic bone. They were just told, it is the brand of the group that you're in, and it was, introduced to them as a self empowerment women empowerment women helping women were supporting each other type of group, and it wasn't until. One of the members ended up showing and leaking that image to the news that the more federal people got involved, and then he ended up going to jail for it, watching one of the interviews and asking the. Women just how did she even get in it? And how did she stay in it? It was just about how they get you with such an open class and seminar and just being like, you don't have to stay, but we just want to introduce you to these things and It was like minded people, so actors got more actors in, scientists got more scientists in, and it was just like creating the community of bettering yourself, and then eventually, the sex part of it was very much a selective group, so not everybody was privy to the information, but just a very, very crazy, very crazy group yeah. And it sounds like it's still going. There's still people who are in the group. He's running it. It sounds like from prison. Right. And most of them are still strong believers that he did nothing wrong. And I do, listening to the interviews, they are the women who like, were really part of Nextium and not necessarily all in DOS. And so it's, it's hard because they were all technically under Ranieri. But yeah, still some very strong believers who just. I believe that he shouldn't be there. Fascinating. So I, I could only watch the first one of those episodes. I'm so thankful you were able to watch the rest. I got to about 75 percent in, and I had seen a lot of coverage, but not really a lot of him. And he says some things I just, I try to keep Jesus on my heart, and be loving and forgiving, and I don't like to say hate, but he is right up there, I, he is such a vile human being. And one thing I like on top of that, he's such like milk toast, just average white guy, right? With the attitude of, I'm like, Radhika, find yourself a boyfriend who loves Keith Raniere like Keith Raniere loves himself. He's literally like on his, his hands under his, fists under his chin, staring in the mirror, wondering what he's going to say next. He cannot... So narcissistic. Enough of himself. And he's... Yeah. I, he just, he touched all the trigger points. I couldn't, I couldn't watch anymore. I know. And he says like one of the most grossest things of like how men are meant for polyamorous relationships and women are only meant for monogamy and just so self obsessed, thinks he deserves the best, which I looked into this Shelly. He took an IQ test in 1989 and scored so high. That they included him in, Australia's version of the Guinness World Record. that definitely boosts your ego enough to think you can achieve pretty much anything. At that point. Wasn't that debunked? I feel like they only had it in for one year, and then what did I hear about it? Like, it wasn't really a real... It wasn't, and that's because I think them declaring it as, like, the world was the part that was, too much. I think, it was, like, in the area, or it was of that, region, which is why it was only included in Australia's version of the Guinness World Records. Okay, so smart, smart, annoying, horrifying white guy, okay, fine. All right, so I did a ton of research on cults. You ready? Yes, please. Okay, so in the research I did, it shows there's not really a coherent comprehension of what cults are and and who they are targeting. they use tons of different methods to retain members. I read from so many different places and listened to so Tons of podcasts. Like my info is a little bit overwhelming, but I did read Stephen Hassan's book, freedom of mind. He says, Colts have these three qualities. Number one, authoritarian leadership to deceptive practices and three tightly controlled intellectual and emotional environment. By the way, if you run into the Colt awareness network can online, it went bankrupt and was bought by Scientology, which if you didn't know. Is a cult. Yeah. I was afraid to even look at their website. I just left it alone. So just be careful when you're out there doing any research. You're like, I don't want the cookies. I don't want the cookies on my computer. Yeah. So I want to talk about attraction to a cult. And I started with like Craig and I, we watched the show in the early two thousands. I can't even think of the name of it or the main character. but all the main character's friends are very obviously joined in a cult and they ask her to come to a meeting. She flat out says, no, because I'm afraid they're going to take advantage of my weak mind. And like, we'll say that all the time. If we're like, do we want to go to this meeting? No, because I'm afraid they're going to take advantage of my weak mind. But I do think that's why people get judgy and think they won't be lured in because I think it's about intelligence, which it's not. Most people want people who are capable and intelligent, enough to recruit other members and who can gainfully work to provide money for the group. According to Hassan, creative people with vivid imaginations tend to be more influenced by hypnosis and hypnotic language and may be easier to influence,, using that neuro linguistic programming, I think, as part of the tactics. people with low self esteem, people who recently had a breakup or divorce. death of a loved one, job loss, illness, moving to a new place. Basically anyone in transition potentially could be easily recruited, more easily recruited. People pleasers tend to be more vulnerable to pressure exerted by recruiters. Women are 70 percent of cult members, I talked to a friend of ours whose mom was brought into a cult when she was a child, like, my, our friend was a child. and it really helped me understand some of the issues, just having a personal conversation with her. She said her mom just wanted to belong and didn't know it was a cult. So why would she be concerned? It's not like they advertise, Hey, we're a dangerous cult. Correct. People who are recruited aren't told it's a destructive group. And I think that's what like targets of true crime, any crime, right? You're not expecting a crime to happen. And even when I teach my students, the first tactic that a predator will use is number one, identify an unsuspecting target, that's how they do this. Colts in the beginning will use love bombing to make a really positive first impression before the crazy begins. Like we were talking about in the, they're the ESP classes, right? I can't remember what this stands for. Yeah. It's like executive something, like executive success program. So it sounds all positive and lovey dovey and wonderful,? And then things go bad. Then retention and there's so many methods I could only do a couple here. One way is labeling people outside the group as bad and some go as far as to threaten those who leave or who are on the outside that they'll go to hell or, there'll be consequences like the collateral like we were talking about at NXIVM. Sleep and food deprivation are often used because it's difficult to think critically. There's sometimes dress codes, definitely isolation, rejecting family members and friends. Sometimes they use age regression, like some cult leaders are referred to as mom or dad or mother god, as in the case of Love Has Won. Members are encouraged to look to the leaders for all the answers. Some cults will use like new language or code words only used within the cult, so it's almost like a secret language. Yeah. And then we talked about collateral or blackmail. That's, Nixxiom. And then I know, Scientology uses that also. And if you leave, then your secrets are revealed. I wanted to talk about methods to escape, and researching some of the exit strategies and ways to convince cult number members they are under undue influence would be similar to helping someone leave an abusive relationship, experiencing addiction, or even a bad job. Stephen Hassan makes the point that a savvy cult leader knows the terms people are trying to help cult members escape use and will educate cult members about it. So like you were talking about, they'll, if someone says you're brainwashed or they're using mind control, then that's like a big trigger point. The members have been educated and they're like, no, no, no, that doesn't. And it actually, I think psychological speaking, I don't know if that's even in the DSM five, they just don't, it's not included. Right. Right. Maybe questionable. So they're correct. So instead he uses the term destructive influence when talking to cult members. He was recruited by the Moonies in the 1970s and didn't get out until he was in a pretty severe car accident and he was able to reconnect with his family he was away from the cult. And so now he helps families and friends rescue people from cults using his strategy, which is the strategic interactive approach. There's a whole book on it. I'm not going to go like super in depth, but,, It's yeah, it's extensive. basically what I got out of it was just to be really open to hearing what the cult member has to say. And they keep, keep lines of communication open. And for me, this really is about. Someone who's an abusive relationship or someone who's being, destructively influenced by someone, we're probably not going to use it for a cult member, but potentially, just reminding the person about what their life was like before going into it. He tries to connect the person with the former members of the group who have left, who understand and can say what, pressure, abuse, and et cetera they experience later on down the line. They, and like the person who's in the cult, they really need to know that there is a safety net outside the cult. So it's so important to just Try not to be judgmental, to be really open, and let them know that you will support them no matter what happens. Listened to the podcast Profiling Evil. Benjamin Resha said on it that 90 percent of members eventually leave on their own. And then just the importance of having family and friends who will accept them. That's a larger number than I thought would make it out. Yeah. I mean, cults are pretty tiny, that's true. It's, I think because true crime is true crime, like we feel like it's this huge threat. Oh my God, it's just around the corner, but it's a pretty small percentage of the population. Our friend said that leaving was really emotional for her and her mom, because her mom had worked on the property. They lived on the property for a long time and all of her friends and most of her family was in it. And so when she left, she actually, thankfully was living in a rental house off the property at that time. But She lost her job. She lost all her friends. She lost many members of her family and so they were kind of out in the cold. she had to find other jobs. She needed to create a whole new community for herself. And that's why a lot of people stay because they just don't want to deal with being completely cut off. And also, financially, like in the book, he talks about people can be completely financially ruined. the cult takes all of their finances and then a lot of things like. educational opportunities, they just got passed by. And so they have to really start over from the beginning. I think we listened to the, was I in a cult, right? Was that the podcast we listened to? Yeah. So I liked that woman was talking about, when she was in NXIVM and it was, she was a member of DOS, right? She had given all of the, Collateral. And then when her, what did they call it? The master told her to seduce Keith Ranieri to heal her sexual trauma I think for her, that was just a step too far,? She just was like, this is going to harm me. Thank goodness. And she was just able to get out. That's that was the breaking point for her. and then our friend's mom left because, she had bought a horse. She loved horses. And the church leader told her that she was worshiping a false idol. Which is a big no no in the Ten Commandments, her mom said that she prayed on it, and she felt pretty square with God, and about horse ownership. And then when the leader said, you ask me, you don't pray about it, and I'll tell you what's right. That's when, after years, that was just a step too far for her. She's like, that's not right. And that's what made her leave. what else do you want to say to the people, Radhika? That's kind of it. No, that's fantastic. I think my biggest takeaway of being a people pleaser is just I can easily see myself. Not now, because I think I'm more educated on cult culture, what it is about, that gets people in there, but I think like old me, young me, like impressionable me as a people pleaser could have easily gotten sucked into a cult The main takeaway is as soon as you do feel that something is wrong in your gut. probably to start talking to people who are outside of the group that you're in to give you their two cents yeah, Steven Hassan if he's allowed to come into a group, he will look for not necessarily the higher up members but the members that have been there for a long time who may be like in the group are kind of like with their arms crossed. Yeah, not real like they've kind of been through the whole show they might be a little bit more negative about the situation and they know what's going on. So he'll try to target that person and be like, do you would you be interested in talking to this newer person who's really into it. And so sometimes even someone within the coal, he's Feels like would be a helpful. one of the things too, I think it was the Benjamin Rishi. He was a Risha. He was in a cult and he like helps people get out of cults. Yeah. Of the things I really liked, he was talking about, he's like, you can't come to a cult member or in my mind, someone who's in an abusive relationship and be like, That person sucks. You got to get rid of them. It's a nightmare. He thinks he's the way he was saying, he's like, if you think about someone has a painting on their wall and you hate it. You can say it's really ugly. I hate it. And he's like, but that stops the conversation. He's like, you could look at that painting that that person loves and be like, what do you think the artist was thinking when they use that color? It's just a means of Opening up a conversation and keeping the lines of communication open, is with someone who's like this boyfriend who's terrible, you remind them of what their life was like before you remind them, no, that's great. Yeah. Keeping the conversation open and going is so much more valuable than just trying to push your own thoughts and ideas on that person because it's easy for you to say you're on the outside. I wanted to end with, I think this was from, it's a little bit culty podcast and it's two, I think it's a married couple who were in, did you listen to it? Have you heard it? No, no. There are a couple that were in NXIVM, and so they're dealing with the trauma of getting out and being out. They have this little mental health nugget that I thought I would share. It's from, I think it's the woman in the couple, like she, I think Kristen Neff is a therapist that she follows. And so it's just basically when you're just having this moment of despair, just like how to soothe yourself. And so the first step is Say what you're experiencing and it doesn't need to necessarily mean you can share it with someone or it can just be for yourself, say what you're experiencing to remind yourself you're not alone. And that's so true, we always think like I'm the only person who could ever be experiencing this. Meanwhile, the world has billions of people in it. So you're going to find somebody there's someone else out there. And then three self talk as a loving person would comfort a child. She was saying she'll actually take her hand and just put it on her heart. Like you would like just be like. Calm down to a child, it's okay. You're safe. It's okay. And I thought that was such a sweet thing for all situations where we're having a moment to calm yourself down. That's important too. Can't rely on someone all the time. Exactly. Well, that was fun. Thank you so much for, doing all this stuff with Keith Raniere because I just, I couldn't handle it. Thanks Shelly. I appreciate you though. Thanks for, thanks for doing this talk with me. All right. Bye everybody. Bye.