Curry and Cyanide/ How to Not Get Poisoned

This one had us stressed! Poisonings may be far more common than reported, but we tried to nail down practical ways to, hopefully, not get poisoned. We talk about JJ's family members slowly dropping like flies over a decade and how she flew under the radar in order to avoid working outside the home. Tangents include studying for Organic chemistry finals and mustaches, (yet again). I may have said quite a few things that will offend the chick pea community...sorry not sorry.

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Check out Killer Pysche https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/killer-psyche/id1573961841

Thai curry recipe;
Cube a potato or two, cube up some tofu, slice a carrot like a big one or two. Add a cubed acorn squash if you like squash and you have a really good knife because those buggers are hard to cut. You could also cook up some chicken and you want, throw in maybe a quart of broth, some red Thai curry. I usually use like a teaspoon or two, to taste, stir it all up, simmer till the veggies are soft. And then you can add a can of coconut milk and salt and pepper to taste.

Transcript

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Hey everyone, welcome to True Crime Defense, the podcast that nerds out on true crime cases, gives you tips on how to stay safe, and never blames the target of any crime. Hope you enjoy the show! this one was really scary. Are you ready? It was scary and I'm so glad I pretty much only eat at my family's house. But then at the same time, I'm like, it was the family that killed everybody. So, yeah. Yeah, here we go. Korean cyanide delicious. Monica, are you comfortable with me giving you a recipe for Thai curry? I found this whole story in and my research so distressing that I wanted to pretend like this is just about curry. It's just a cooking show really. Yeah, Okay, here we go. This is called curry and cyanide, the Jolly Joseph case. And I kind of hate when they use the killer's name. Spoiler, too late. Jolly is the killer. Right. We'll never remember the victims because her name is so incredibly memorable, but I'm just going to call her the killer or JJ from now. JJ, I like that. Yeah. It's on Netflix. Just a warning, there is a murder of a child along with the other murders. Hopefully our title, True Crime Defense, clues you in that there's going to be some murder here, but if it's your first time, just know that, we are very sensitive to that. I particularly don't like hearing about anything,, happening to animals or children, so I'm not going to go deep into details and I'll give you a warning before we talk about it. You may want to have a legal pad and a pencil to follow this one, or I don't know, do people still use Excel on their computation devices? Who knows? Excel is very complicated. Pen and paper is good. I hope so. Okay, we are in Kutatai, Kerala. A reporter says, quote, Jolly Joseph, a respected local mother, was taken into custody in a case which has sent shockwaves through all of India, unquote. And I really, really like that she's referred to as a local mother. Or like that's her job, because yes, that is a very legitimate job. A male officer named Jeevan and two female officers are there to arrest her. The ladies are in plainclothes, and the killer is with her sons Remo and his brother. I did not catch the other brother's name. I don't even think they mentioned it that much. They didn't talk about it at all. And they didn't interview him. Maybe he didn't want to be a brother. Yeah. Remo says he is stunned because he thought the family members had died because of natural causes. He's an adult now in this, the episode. At this point, I was in, like, this looks bananas. Remo said he couldn't believe it at first, but now he can accept her as a mother again. We get people just pushing and shoving like it's a mosh pit at Woodstock 99 to get a glimpse of photos of the car she's in. She's accused of killing her mother in law, father in law, husband, and three others in a period of 14 years. The six bodies are exhumed and, Radhika, we see footage, which I really hope is a reenactment, but I'm not sure. But I wouldn't be surprised cause like when we would be in India watching the news, they have no concept of filtering, blurring nothing. They're just like, well, this is it. This is the murder that happened. And even like the scene of them, taking Jolly away in the car and millions of people just coming to watch. It's, nothing up to. Your own imagination there. They'll, they'll just show everything. So I wouldn't be surprised if it was real. Yikes. The reporters are saying no one suspected, but I think we'll learn there was plenty of suspicion. She's faculty at National Institute of Technology in Calicut. Maybe. We'll see. Women in STEM, and religious, and a killer. Wowie zowie, the townspeople are in a tizzy. The dramatic music and the throngs of people crowding around her. I was ready for this one, and also it's awful. Oh my gosh, the intro with the cooking and the boiling witches cauldron. Isn't that what it looked like? I was like, this doesn't look like a normal little pot of food. This looks like a witch's brew. This is dramatic. Okay, Heiji Simon, head of investigations and kudetai deaths, is here playing the piano. And Radhika, you know I'm a sucker for learning about investigators personal life. He was 37 years in law enforcement. Roy Thomas of the Panamatom family died in 2011. His brother and sister in law filed a complaint. They claim his death was cyanide poisoning, and we have current day investigator Simon looking at random files. I guess the police were thinking suicide, which seems like a horrible way to kill yourself. KG Simon is on the case. JJ was arrested in 2019 and that's when he started asking her questions, so I'm pretty confused about the timeline. My brain can't work unless there is perfect chronology, as you know. I know, I hate when they go like back and forth. I know. Along with the family tree, yeah, my brain went haywire. He shows her the evidence in what I'm assuming is a recreation and she confesses. The mustaches in this documentary. This is not one to listen to. You've gotta watch it. B. A. Allure is the killer's defense lawyer. For example, what a mustache. He says you can't take any confession in the police custody as evidence because it could have been forced under duress. She tells the lawyer she did not commit this crime, and we have to be very careful about that. Remember Dying for Protection episode? That's one of our episodes, you guys, if you want to go back. Same kind of scenario. Seems like police tactics in India are to beat the confession out of you. As if forced confessions only happen in India. Vrindan Dasi. Henry is a reporter who talks about camping outside the Panamatam home. To get the story the reporter goes to Katapana, where the killer grew up, and this is the most charitable way of saying someone is lazy. She says, quote, she was really not comfortable being in a house where people were expected to do work for a living. Really not comfortable doing all of that. Yeah. I'm really comfortable. Doing work? Okay. She marries Roy, who is from a well off family. Rojo and Rinji are Roy's siblings. Their dad was in the education department, and their mom was a teacher. I believe Roy and JJ are related to each other? Like distant cousins, yeah. Okay. I was too confused to determine if it's by blood or marriage, but the dad didn't like it. JJ has a master's degree in commerce with 50 percent marks. Okay. Was that good? I don't think so. I don't know what that means. 50 sounds like an F to me, but I don't know their standards, so. Okay, fine. 1997, Roy and J. J. marry. A neighbor says J. J. was the star of the neighborhood. J. J. shops for jewelry and cooks and keeps house all day, but the mother in law wants her to get a job and share life. Burdens equally, which is so beautiful. I love that sentiment. But then JJ gets pregnant and there's no more pressure for her to work. She has Remo in 1999. The mother in law says she'll take care of Remo and JJ should go to work. Except when investigators look into it, they find out later that JJ had no such qualifications. Anama Thomas, which is the mom, right? The Yeah, Anama pretty much means mom. Like that name is just mom. Okay, the, so her mother in law basically finds out the fake master's degree and then we see all of a sudden it's 2002. Anima drinks some water and her daughter finds her on the bed and she says, I'm going to die. Her face was bright red and she couldn't breathe. They call the doctor to go straight to the hospital and five minutes after arrival, they say she has died. It's so sad. It's so sad. Also, I feel like her saying, I think I'm going to die. I think I'm going to die. And nobody can do anything. just imagine how Anima felt of sitting there, just not being able to breathe and just knowing that she's going to die and no one's going to. I guess get to her in time to help. Yeah, it sounds like cyanide is a really horrible way to die. It's terrible. so they assume that it's a stroke. JJ's lawyer says it's been 18 years, so there's no way to tell what happens. And I mean, good point. J. J. steps into Anima's role and promotes herself to matriarch of the family. This causes conflict between her and the sister in law, and she says that J. J. told her, you can't do anything without asking me first. The killer wants the same respect as Anima, as the teacher, and she gets a job as a guest lecturer at NIT. She's from a family of farmers, and look at her now. Ms. Matthew now starts visiting JJ. Remember him for later. He is also somehow related. And Radhika, this became like me trying to pass O Chem in college. I'm gonna need a chai latte. I need a giant table. I need a chart of the chemical elements. Absolute silence. I might need to take a break to watch the original 90210 series to figure this out, and I just cannot right now. Do you have the answer to this equation? You said maybe distant cousins, right? They, well, yeah, because so these guys are distance cousins, and I think The Matthew guy was a cousin of Roy, which still makes these guys cousins, too. Yes, they're all related, whatever. Yeah, I bet the whole community is, and there's just no way of keeping track. Okay. Tom Thomas is Roy's brother, maybe? Yes. Okay. He confronts JJ about Matthew coming over all the time. Tom Thomas dies in 2008. He takes his usual mushroom capsule On that evening, JJ gives the capsule to him and he suddenly becomes unconscious and JJ leaves the room and orders a rickshaw to take him to the hospital and he dies in the rickshaw. Roy. Wait. Tom Thomas is Roy's dad. Roy's dad, okay, so her father in law. Father in law, yes. Alright, so he's taking mushroom capsules, looking after his health, and apparently she's there, and then, he dies in the rickshaw, and I'm laughing because JJ says she couldn't find the car keys, and that's why it took so long for him to get to the hospital. Like, ugh, JJ. The family thinks he dies of a heart attack. Now a neighbor says the killer told her there will be three deaths unless a major construction is done to the property and the elders in the church told her that's what needs to happen. And I mean, listen, Radhika, I am not a Bible scholar or a theologian, but I don't think people die if you don't get all new backsplash. Like what is happening? They're like, it's not working out. We got to fix something. People have to die. Reynold, JJ's second son, is born when Remo was in kindergarten, so I'm thinking 2006. Roy's business falls apart and they run out of money. There's something about a forged will at this point, and Roy knows about JJ's affair with Matthew, and guess what? In 2011, JJ gives the kids an early dinner and makes chickpea curry for Roy. Apparently at 3 p. m. and the kids are already in bed. Roy is unconscious in the bathroom, and again, he dies at the hospital, but not until after 11pm, which becomes important later, but I'm not exactly sure why. Also, chickpea curry, as your last meal. I, I'm not a fan of the chickpea, so I'm just like, prison for life. Just for non poison chickpeakers. Just making that. I know, she was like, that's his absolute favorite, so I made him his favorite meal, and what a way to die. All right, if he likes it, fine. One of the family members insists on a post mortem, and they find out he died of cyanide poisoning. That's the third time, right, yes, that's the third time, and this is the one where it's, Roy's uncle, a. k. a. Tom Thomas, Roy's dad's brother, is the one who had been like really suspicious and finally was able to get the, postmortem thing signed off. Yeah, okay. And I guess it's assumed it was a suicide though, due to the huge debt that Roy was in. But the brother says no one has ever come to him about Roy's debts, so they think JJ probably made up the debt. Mm hmm. A toxicologist says first suspect murder when you find cyanide. Thank you. Well, duh. Oh my gosh. I guess the police just took the claim of suicide at face value and didn't investigate further. You have to get a license first to obtain cyanide, and it is used in jewelry manufacturing, which will come up later. 2012, J. J. claims the Panamutam home out from under her husband's siblings. She had a fake will made. Roy's siblings get legal ownership of the house back, but they decide not to sue her or kick her out for the sake of the children who were school aged at that time. One of the uncles is in contact with Roy's sister and is making some waves about how fishy J. J. is, and yet continues to visit her often. He finds out about the affair with Matthew. In 2014, JJ calls her sister-in-Law and tells her that uncle died at the hospital. No postmortem is conducted, and the lawyer does make a good point that even if he suspected jj, he was still at her house visiting her often. So how suspicious could he be? I mean, I think that is suspicious because he's been keeping his eye on her. Yep. 2014, now JJ wants to marry Shaju, Roy's first cousin. He was financially well off. JJ remarked apparently that Shaju's wife Silly could take it easy and didn't have to work much. And does she have servants? Does she have family to help her? Cause she's got kids. No, definitely they have servants. A hundred thousand percent. I give that money. At Shahjoo's, they are celebrating a First Holy Communion, and now I'm going to warn for child murder, fast forward like 30 60 seconds. So it's Shahjoo's daughter, Alfine, she's two, and she dies at the hospital. And there aren't a lot of details, and the defense lawyer asks what would be the motive. Alfine's mom, Silly, went into a depression, and JJ befriends her. Silly mentions that she hopes to get pregnant with another daughter and the killer recommends some capsules that are good for overall health. 2016, Silly dies at a dental clinic with JJ. Apparently JJ gives Silly a mushroom capsule and she dies right after. Shaji refuses a post mortem. So it kind of makes you wonder if JJ is working alone. Also, did JJ take Silly to the dentist and kill her in the waiting room? Oh, the stress of knowing you're going to see the dentist in your last moments. That's mean. Also the chickpea curry, she is diabolical. Alright, the sister in law feels that JJ is very happy at Silly's funeral and she starts feeling like something's not right. Shaju proposes to the killer and they marry in 2017. The sister in law started investigating and looking at police reports. She realizes the police report and JJ's report are different and she thinks that conclusively proves that JJ did it. I don't know, kind of thin evidence. It is, yeah. She reports her suspicions to police and they investigate. NIT says they have no record of the killer working there. She had faked all her education and professional qualifications. I wonder where she was going when she set out to go guest lecture at NIT. I, no, when that, when that scene came out, my sister and I, we were like, we called it! We called that she wasn't actually employed, she is so sneaky. And those are such good lies, too. I guess the police warned JJ that they were investigating, and her son requests that the aunt and the uncle withdraw the case. And I don't, I don't know what the law is in India, is this a civil case or a criminal case? are the police just going to stop investigating if the family makes it uncomfortable? I do think, that because they requested it to be investigated, if they, retract it, then they don't have to anymore. It becomes more an extra private thing instead of, mandated by the court, okay. And then here I wrote spectacular mustache on this reporter's handlebar and, uh, yeah, these were good. The whole town is there milling about while they exhume the bodies, or is this a recreation? Like, what? I'm telling you, I bet you they were able to pull, news clippings and that, I don't doubt, are real. Oh, holy moly. Oh, it's bones. It's, yeah, it's. Eww, it's ugly. JJ's son Remo says that she confessed to him, and for some reason he calls his aunt to call the police instead of calling them himself. Then the aunt is panicked because she knows there's cyanide in the house and the killer could kill her two sons. And she says to stuff a piece of cloth in your mouth and don't fall asleep and don't eat or drink anything. And these two kids are just sitting in the house and she waits until the morning to go get the kids and call the police. I just don't know if, do they, I don't even think they lived that far away from each other, because they all lived in the same area. Wouldn't you be in the car, even if you're far? Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like, if you're so scared to, tell someone to stuff cloth in their mouths, wouldn't you just jump in the car and get started on the drive or something? Okay. And then also, she doesn't even call the police. Do they not have a nighttime police line? I do get the kid not calling the police because they never believed them. But I feel like even If the aunt was called, they should. I didn't get it. Oof. JJ's lover, Matthew, presumably gave her the cyanide since he could access it from the jewelry business where he worked. It's so wild how many of the alleged and actual criminals in the Indian programs we've seen where they're not handcuffed. Yeah. Oh yeah. Or are we weird for cuffing everyone? I don't know, Veronica, home of the free might not be as true as we thought. Nope. Uh, the aunt who pushed for the investigation is raising J's Sons. I think they were teenagers at the time that JJ went to jail. Mm-Hmm. JJs sister-in-law says she asked how she feels about the murders and JJ says, quote unquote, it just happened. J. J. tells her that it says in the Bible that God forgives everyone and God will forgive me. And, I mean, as a Christian, I can tell you that that is true, but it seems like she's using it to justify serial killing somehow. And that's the show and I did a little bit of an outside investigation The Hindu, which I don't know if you're familiar with, Renika, I don't know if it's reputable, bear that in mind. Apparently there are two other co defendants. M. S. Matthew is one of them, and that's from January 2024, and it looks like the trial is ongoing. It listed 158 witnesses. Oh, wow. What else do you want to say before we get into not getting poisoned? I think it's just absolutely wild that the whole community just saw what they wanted to see, because how can you have one entire family start to slowly get wiped out, and this one person always seems to be around them? Even as a normal person, you're like, that sounds so suspicious, and you just decide to be like, no, no, no, it can't be, and yeah, it just, I guess it just goes to just how much you will only see what you want to see if you don't want to have to deal with all the repercussions of actually investigating something. Well, I mean, they didn't even want to sue her back for the house because they didn't want to harm the kids. And so I can kind of see, as soon as you start getting that ball rolling of, this person's a murderer, it's really bad for the kids. And so I can kind of see, and especially you just think, you want to think, it was a heart attack. It was a stroke. Totally. Yeah, that's way easier than, going down the other path. I'm not applauding her for what she did, obviously, but just thinking about how much thought she put into certain things. She didn't actually marry Matthew. She married the other guy because that's who she really wanted, but she just kept Matthew around to use him for his jewelry making cyanide options. that is so calculative and you put all this effort into planning these murders. You could have also just put that much effort into just. Getting the job or find other ways to make money because that was most of it. She just didn't want to work and she didn't want to have to be the mom of the family essentially and do everything that comes with that. Yeah. Before we move on to talking about safety, I wanted to give people options for contacting us and a shout out to our supporters. Thanks to Michelle H and Monica S for supporting us this month. We love you. Thank you so much for joining us. we would love your feedback, case suggestions, or if you just want to say hi, our email is tcdefense at yahoo. com. Our Instagram has self defense videos and you can DM us there at TC underscore defense. YouTube also has our self defense videos and episodes at TC underscore D. I gotta say, Erotica, this one was disconcerting. I can usually find a conglomeration of data from the Justice Department or FBI websites, and there's just not that much out there that I could find, so I'm hoping you can balance out what I constructed as far as how to not get poisoned. Sure. I found a book on criminal poisonings on Amazon for 117, and I did not have the funds or the time to investigate, so The murder rate is pretty low in my area, and poisonings are only 1 percent of them. I feel pretty safe. I have a couple articles, and then I'm going to try to give you my take just from watching Datelines, etc. I read an article that said that poisonings tend to increase just after highly publicized cases of poisoning, which is pretty dumb, since the investigators in the region will see the patterns since they just investigated one. Right. Ugh, I think we'll do an episode on spiked drinks soon ish, so I'll just say now just keep an eye on drinks, if anything tastes odd or if you feel strange, stop drinking said beverage and seek help. Also, if you're a person who sees a person that appears too inebriated to consent to anything, step in. Get involved, please. I wanted to look at the numbers and I've heard that women are far more likely than men to use poison, but when I looked, that's what's published. It doesn't seem to bear out. And again, it was difficult to find information or to know what's accurate, but I saw from Statista, which who knows if that's a good info. A couple articles also say that 60 percent of poisoners are men. I think women use poison percentage wise more often than men and their methods of killing. There are far more male killers in general than female killers. Radhika, I went so far down the rabble rabbit hole on why there's so little info and how to think mathematically about the probability of being poisoned. I really had to get control of myself, remind myself that I'm a working mom and I have the side gig of teaching and training self defense and podcasting. And I'm not actually defending my PhD dissertation. So unless you read the book from Amazon, we're just going to have a freewheeling discussion and hope. Sounds good. So from the National Library of Medicine, criminal poisonings are among the least frequently detected crimes in the world. Lack of suspicion of this type of event by police officers and prosecutors, clinical symptoms imitating many somatic diseases, and technical difficulties in diagnostics, as well as high research costs, make the actual frequency of these events difficult to estimate. The substance used for criminal poisonings is often characterized by a lack of taste, color, and smell, delayed action, easy availability, and difficulty to detect. And that's what's given me nightmares ever since I read it. It just seems like it's everywhere. All options are there. All situations, just don't eat. Yeah. The Journal of Law Enforcement Technology, it's from 2007, but it's the most recent thing I could find. It says most victims of poisoning are already terminally ill, which feels crazy. I mean, just wait. they're often, right? I mean, they're often mentally incapacitated, drug addicted, old, or very young. And then this is really interesting. Horrible. Quote, unwanted spouses or lovers composed another high risk group. Unquote. Code. Poisoners like to pretend they are a loving caregiver and get a thrill from controlling the death and suffering of their victims. Perpetrators of homicidal poisonings are often employed in the medical or caregiving fields. Radhika, I got my eye on you. Watch me close, Shelley. Watch me close. It talks about how there are much better ways to detect poisonings now, but poisonings often mimic what could look like naturally occurring death. The most common poisons used are arsenic, cyanide, thallium, strychnine, aconitine, atropine, and I'm going to say antimony, I'm guessing is how you say that word. Some indications of homicidal poisoning are sudden death, a caregiver who seems to be present or associated with other illnesses or deaths. The victim may get sick, recover, and then die. That's what I've gleaned from Datelines. Weird chronic illnesses and food that tastes funky are the red flags, people. So I guess you just hope you're not the first victim and you might see a pattern with a killer and extricate yourself, hopefully, in psychology today, they say most poisoners are men when a woman is poisoned. It's usually a man and when a victim is a man, the poisoner is equally likely to be male or female. The homicidal poisoner in general is 5 to 10 years younger than the victim. Most poisoners kill people they know, but there are those cases of serial or mass poisoners like the Tylenol killer. And Radhika, the following quote took my breath away. Quote, because it's relatively easy to get away with poisoning, it's estimated that there are possibly 20 to 30 times more poisonings than are pointed to in criminal trials, and we only know the facts and personalities of poisoners who get caught. I need to scream for like a minute or two. I literally was going through the deaths of people. I'm okay, that was cancer. It was cancer, right? That, that it was a heart attack. It was, you try to convince yourself, any of the things you thought were normal deaths, right. Cause if it's just a one off, you have no reason to suspect it. It's only in this situation, when it happens so many times, you're like, That's not right. But jeez, and I didn't want to end it with that, so I'll give you a, you guys a recommendation for a podcast I like. The host is a psychiatric nurse who worked as a profiler for the FBI. It's called Killer Psyche. She says that most poisoners avoid confrontation, they may believe they are superior to others, need to control, be narcissistic, manipulative, and usually intelligent. She also said male poisoners outnumber females significantly, and it's less common now because of technology. Apparently, maybe. Right? We don't know. If they get away with it once, it increases confidence, and they may try again. Poisoning is done for the same motives as other murders. Greed, revenge, and jealousy. Most other murders. she often sees passive aggressive ways of coping and poisoners and I listened to her episodes on the Tylenol Killer and the Mensa Murder, which is a guy who murders his neighbors using poison. It's tragic, but there's an undercover lady cop and he thinks he's the smartest person on earth and he's so not. And it is worth a listen. It's a good episode. What do you got, Radhika? The only thing I got was after I read this, I don't know if you had to do this, but in my high school, our AP Bio and Chemistry teachers, they were the same person, they made us memorize, and it was a question on the test, on every test. It was what is the number for poison control? And I just remember memorizing that for like 2 years of my life, but it's 1 800 222 1222 I think if you're ever suspicious that you have been poisoned, or even if it's an obvious like, oh, my God, they just ate something they shouldn't have eaten. I just remember my teacher being like, and they don't care if you're asking about a dumb question. It's never a dumb question to contact. Poison control and just ask them what you should do 1 800 222 1222 is the number for poison control. And then because I'm a huge plant person, I actually got into looking at, different plants that can poison you, which, Okay. You know, there's so many restaurants nowadays that just put a bunch of edible flowers on top of your food and stuff, and I'm like, sure, that looks cute and all, but you could accidentally poison someone if you do it with plants that you don't actually verify are edible, which this one I didn't know, but I didn't know mistletoe during the holidays is actually extremely poisonous if you were to eat it, like especially your pet or something. If they ate it, it gives you extreme GI symptoms. The other one is the foxglove. Do you know what that flower looks like? It's like a tall standing stalk, and it has almost like little bells coming out of it from the top to the bottom. if you were to use that on like foods for decoration or whatever. It could actually slow or stop your heart, which is pretty scary for a pretty little thing and then this is something that I feel like a lot of immigrant families need to watch out for because I know my family is very guilty of it. But when you buy cleaners, Even if it gets all the way down to the bottom, leave it in the container. The liquid came in. We are, I feel like it's so easy for us to be like, Oh, it's big. Like it's taking up space. Let me move it into a smaller container or whatever. And just put the label on it. But the actual product is so important to have the, all the labels. Like what's dangerous about it or what to do in case something does happen. But I'm thinking probably call poison control or even 911. I guess I guess. Yeah. Yeah. The other thing that did surprise me is they said that if you are suspicious that you ingested something poisonous, do not. Throw it up don't force yourself to throw it up, But they said that you run the risk of if it's extremely poisonous or acidic or toxic or whatever, then you run the risk of burning your esophagus. Throat, mouth, everything. So it's best to actually not force yourself to throw up and that was on the Poison Control website. Just immediately call Poison Control. 1 800 222 1222 I sound like one of those advertisements where by the end you should have this number memorized. Well, now we're getting to the real reason why you're so terrified of poisonings, right? It's just lodged in your brain and you're like, someday I'm going to get poisoned. Someday I'm going to need to know this number that I've memorized in 10th grade. That's amazing. Yeah, my sister and I, we recorded about the, The nurse killer and it sounded like poison control knew well before anybody else because they had gotten multiple calls from separate hospitals about the killer and so they had put it together. But I guess they couldn't, for some reason, tell law enforcement and it wasn't until law enforcement called them that they were like, Get to our office now, this out. Anything else you want to say to the people? Nope, that's about it. Just be safe with what you put in your mouth. Ugh, no chickpeas either, Barb. Shelly, they're good. You just have to prepare them right. I know a lot of people like chickpeas. Not for me. That's okay. Awesome. Well, it was really good seeing you. Always, Shelly. Always good to see you. All right. Bye everybody. Bye Shelly. Bye. See you later. Okay. I actually remembered to record first thing. So how you doing? Good. Wait, Shelley, you know that when you create the zoom link at the bottom, you could just say record. Oh, and then it automatically records. Yeah, every time you start a meeting it'll record. Sometimes I sit in here for like five minutes just by myself, so then there's just been like five minutes of dead air while I'm like All right, but fair enough. Thank you for the tip. Yeah, I learned this when I lived in Thailand, but the hill tribes, they don't measure things via traditional methods and not by American standards. So cube a potato or two, cube up some tofu, slice a carrot like a big one or two. Add a cubed acorn squash if you like squash and you have a really good knife because those buggers are hard to cut. I made it veggie for you. I'll eat a bomb. Yep. You could also cook up some chicken and you want, if you wanted, throw in maybe a quart of broth, some red Thai curry. I usually use like a teaspoon or two, but to taste, stir it all up, simmer till the veggies are soft. And then you can add a can of coconut milk and salt and pepper to taste. I'll put it in the show notes. It's delicious. You can eat it over rice if you want. I love it. It's a safe curry. Yeah, excuse me. Sorry. I got to get a Kleenex. Hang on just a sec. Oh, sure. My God, like hot weather going to cold weather and then back to hot and then back to cold. Like I'm just I can't breathe today. My entire family just stopped getting sick and I have been avoiding them like the plague in my own house. Good luck. Yeah. Mushroom capsules.